Here is the second and final part of the interview with Ackim “iGabazi” Ndebele. You may read Part One here.
<Read time: 6 min>
The Poetry of…
SJ: I did not know that you are also a poet…
Before music, politics, and teaching, I am a poet. My poems were always political, and they circulated abantu bengakwazi ukuthi zabhalwa yimi (people not knowing that they were written by me). I often hear my poem being performed – I don’t know if you know it, ‘Bathi Ngixole’:
Bathi ngixole
Bathi ngixole kanjani?
Bathi ngixole
Bathi ngixolele bani?
Bathi ngixole
Ngimxolele kanjani yena engaxolisanga?
They tell me to forgive
But how am I to forgive?
They tell me to forgive
But who is it I am to forgive?
They tell me to forgive
How do I forgive this unamed person
when they haven’t asked for forgiveness?
SJ: Hayi suka! Ngeyakho inkondlo leyi? Akula la-three weeks ngiyizwe beyi-performa ku-YouTube! (You don’t say! That is your poem? I heard it being performed on YouTube barely three weeks ago!)
(laughs) Ye, ngeyami (Yes, it’s mine). I randomly comment on social media, appreciating our young poets performing it as if it’s not mine. I wrote it as a dedication to the survivors of the Gukurahundi Genocide and the quest for redress.
Poetry has always been my political tool in trying to give our issues a voice. We are lacking somewhere because our narrative has been sidelined, and our artists shy away from speaking out or using their art to raise issues of Matabeleland, because you can be ostracised.
The Maskandi Music of…
Studio time is expensive; otherwise, I would have six albums already! As a poet, I am also a songwriter, and I have many songs that I have written.
The Religion of…
I was brought up Christian, and I believe I am still Christian. I was ordained as a youth pastor in 2013, so ukhuluma lomfudisi nje (you are speaking to a pastor)! I also studied Africa – umuntu omnyama, black people. Christianity, unfortunately, has been used as a tool of oppression towards black people. That is not to say it is 100% responsible for our challenges, but it has been used against us.
If you read authors like Africana studies professor John Hendrik Clarke (1915–1998), and books like Who Is This King of Glory? (1992, Kessinger) by Alvin Boyd Kuhn and Crystal Trower, you get to see myths of religion debunked. Some things didn’t make sense to me before I did my research. Things like God telling Abraham to go south, and yet when I look at the map, he is heading north; or when I read about the animals mentioned in the Bible – they are all found in Africa and are not found anywhere in the Middle East.
I find that by reading history and the Bible, it reveals the Bible is African history. It did not make sense to the coloniser that Jesus looked black instead of them. Unfortunately, the damage has been so deep to us. I cannot preach such in the pulpit. It wouldn’t be acceptable. We have put up walls to defend lies and thus fail to see ourselves.
I therefore believe in spirituality more than I believe in religion. I believe that organised religion as a whole is a scam!
SJ: Erm… Isithupha sokugcotshwa singabe sesalahlwa yini, kumbe sisaphila emdulwini? (Uhm… does this mean that the theology diploma has been thrown away, or is it still hanging on the wall?)
(laughs) Sisaphila! It’s still there. It is just that I have adjusted my understanding of some things. For example, my church pastors still believe in a white Jesus, and I no longer do. That is the quagmire that ministers who have researched find ourselves in. (There were seven conventions on “Brand Jesus” spread over 462 years in Roman-colonised present-day Turkey from AD325-787). I have never been religious nor a believer in life, and so to me, Jesus is a brand. When Old Ndebele women heard the stories about the donkey-riding king, they laughed until they cried – SJ)
The Siblings of…
My siblings have not been so supportive because of their fear of politics. Considering everything I have gone through, it affected them a lot. There are seven of us in my family.
“We learned to stick together.”
The Prison System Experience of…
The MRP-9 began at Khami Remand in Bulawayo. Then they decided to separate us. Tinos Nkomo, Nkosilathi Ncube, and I were thrown into Khami Maximum Prison as we were designated a security threat, and put in D-Class conditions, the worst of all from A-D classes. Tinos was 73 years old at the time, while Levison was 62, and the ladies, MaBanda lo-MaMoyo were in their 60s.
The people we were jailed with knew about MRP, and it was unheard of that people with a sentence under six years could be placed in D-class. This involved being put in leg irons, limited time outside for air, and an armed guard when moving about for the entire three years in prison. This is the same designation that was placed on Lookout Masuku and Dumiso Dabengwa in their 1982 arrest.
We were now accused of inciting other prisoners and not allowed to stay in one prison, having to rotate prisons so that we wouldn’t get familiar with others. Thus, we were transferred from Khami Remand to Khami Maximum, then to Chikurubi Maximum, and finally to Harare Central Prison, where the three years were completed. The conditions were extremely challenging, and I don’t think I can elaborate further than this. We were severely brutalised. I recall being in the singing group at some point.
We learned to stick together, though.
The New Freedom of…
We were released in April of last year, at the end of our 3-year sentence. Our freedom never came back because we were monitored. I learned that my home had been broken into and that my documents and devices had been confiscated. We had to be evacuated from the country for treatment and slowly recovered our health.
I continue to pursue my political, music, and poetry careers. People from Matabeleland and Midlands are not empowered in all sectors, and we probably waste 90% of our time looking for food to put on the table. Sometimes siyabasola ukuthi aba-supporti into yakithi kodwa politics is just not in their Maslow’s hierarchy of needs (a psychological theory by Abraham Maslow that outlines five stages of human needs – SJ). The Zimbabwe system made sure that we would be disenfranchised like that. We need more activism about Mthwakazi, especially with the younger generation and students, so that they do not blame us for being silent.
Ackim Ndebele is the head of communications for the Mthwakazi Republic Party and is working on his album.
Interview date: 13 August 2025
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Cite this article: Jermain, S. (2025, August 26). The Republic of. . . Ackim Ndebele. Sonny Jermain Online. https://sonnyjermain.com/the-republic-of-ackim-ndebele-part-2/
In-text: Parenthical – (Jermain, 2025); or Narrative – Jermain (2025).
